Health QuestionsCategory: TreatmentsNo Hope Left: Tramadol fails
Brain No Work asked 3 years ago

Hi everybody, I have been too depressed to ask my stinking questions, but I have benefitted a lot from all of your experiences. Anacedotal is more helpful & significantly relevant than any garbagy lies I’ve gotten from my doctor ( walk in GP ) Excuse spelling mistakes as I proceed.  I am Unipolar with Major Depression 6 months, old longstanding Dsythmia, guess that makes me doubley depressed, and perhaps touch of BP2,  way too much Add, also a co morbid physical illness which complicates things, because I’m on prednisone & have lost much too much weight for no reason  & am falling apart physically ( but cleve to Jerod’s manifesto of suckassi yoga, quigong, etc. if only I could lift a finger to help myself I”m sure it would be great!)  Gee what is my question/ It is two fold:  I have given up, for various reasons that might include DRUGS FAILING ME!!!   Okay, I am a neophyte compared to most of you, but I am very old and sick and tired, No I mean I was tried on some of these drugs a decade and a half ago.  Didn’t want to start again.  Was convinced by GP to, because of intense unrelenting depression, daily crying, ending my life early seen as only solution to various problems,  well anyway, he lied in his basic presentation about how ” we would take me off AD’s as soon as there were any side-effects”  and try another. I didn’t think it made sense at the time. What a Liar. Now, after 2 very brief trials, he says he cannot help me & recommends immediate in local hospital ECT.   My direction is now from local Mental Heath Team psychiatrist to help with medication. But having failed at a SSRI, Cipralex, after a rough early ride, ( agitation, panic, depersonalization, derealization, hysterical freakouts, for very brief periods,  I had very early response of beautiful mood improvement, with reduced anxiety, Day 3,4,5,  my distrusted GP tells me Placebo, I know it i was improved brain working. FACT. Unfortunately the improved mood quickly disappeared and was replaced with VEGETATIVE NON_MOTIVATIONAL APATHETIC STUPOUR which within the third week was a return to suicidal thoughts on top of the aforementioned crappy non-response. So how common is it for a drug to show its’ true possible beautiful colours and then fade away, leaving one worse off for the cruel false hope? Obviously I don’t mean Poop-out, I mean just getting an early feeling for if it’s a fit, and then it suddenlyjilts you.     My Big Rejection, my Magic Pill that just won’t perform when I need it to, Is one that Jerod’s Medicinally Experienced Ex, did well with, when nothing else would, the works for some refractory and could save my life, but only on Sundays, Tramadol  Please someone tell me why it only works  once in a blue moon, but when it does it fixes my brain in the exact EXACT way I want and need it to be fixed.  Absolute calmness, all sensory overload is gone, positive instead of negative, mental energy to deal with important things long put off, all critical repetitive voice stop instantly to be replaced with constructive self-coaching, harm reduction oriented,  aware of other’s needs, more able to be supportive, less self-centered. My real self that I want to be. Glass half-full.  I realize this is not a long term solution, though for some, it has lasted years, I just want to understand the clues this positive response could be indicating in terms of what I need to fix my brain and even my personality so brilliantly. Like in the old classic “Listening to Prozac” where whole personalities were improved to alarming degrees, supposedly, to the old way of thinking. But Tramadol, while it has known anti-depressant weak re-uptake (SE & NE ) factors, works the first time. So how is the AD effect relevant. ( The synthetuic opiod effect is not all that is making this one pill so brain-changing for me )  To confuse me further, as I tried to research my lost love, I found a paper on how Reboxetine (NE) given to normals, first time one time, caused “Positive Emotional Bias”.  So I  did not unnderstand how an anti depressant could cause immediate improvement in happy thoughts in undepressed normals. But so th successful experiment said.    Does anyone know what I mean about a magic pill not working when it did work and the curiosity that burns in the brain to find a similar fix/fit. Is that not logical to question why, that lost happiness, that lost potential.   All at the drop of a hat, it could allow me to live.  Or not.

14 Answers
Brain No Work answered 3 years ago

Re: No Hope Left: Tramadol fails
Maybe only Mouse can advise on this. Is she the only one Tramadol helped in an  anti-depressant mood-stabilizing almost better than well pill fashion?  I feel not so very unique that this could be true.

mania answered 3 years ago

Re: No Hope Left: Tramadol fails
First off:  We need paragraph breaks.  There are too many autistics, aspies, and other-wise brain wonked individuals here that can’t read block text.
 
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:27:

Hi everybody, I have been too depressed to ask my stinking questions, but I have benefitted a lot from all of your experiences. Anacedotal is more helpful & significantly relevant than any garbagy lies I’ve gotten from my doctor ( walk in GP ) Excuse spelling mistakes as I proceed.  I am Unipolar with Major Depression 6 months, old longstanding Dsythmia, guess that makes me doubley depressed, and perhaps touch of BP2,  way too much Add, also a co morbid physical illness which complicates things,

Actually, here, this is not that odd.
 
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:27:

because I’m on prednisone & have lost much too much weight for no reason

How do you feel when you are on prednisone?  Mentally, I mean.  Up or down?  If it is “up” you could be experiencing prednisone mania (very common), which would explain the weight loss.
 
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:27:

& am falling apart physically ( but cleve to Jerod’s manifesto of suckassi yoga, quigong, etc. if only I could lift a finger to help myself I”m sure it would be great!)  Gee what is my question/ It is two fold:  I have given up, for various reasons that might include DRUGS FAILING ME!!!   Okay, I am a neophyte compared to most of you, but I am very old and sick and tired, No I mean I was tried on some of these drugs a decade and a half ago.  Didn’t want to start again.  Was convinced by GP to, because of intense unrelenting depression, daily crying, ending my life early seen as only solution to various problems,  well anyway, he lied in his basic presentation about how ” we would take me off AD’s as soon as there were any side-effects”  and try another.

All drugs have side effects.  That’s just the way it is.  It is up to you to decide which is preferable: side effects, or the permanent dirt nap.  That said, drugs have changed alot in the last 15 years.
 
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:27:

I didn’t think it made sense at the time. What a Liar. Now, after 2 very brief trials, he says he cannot help me & recommends immediate in local hospital ECT.   My direction is now from local Mental Heath Team psychiatrist to help with medication. But having failed at a SSRI, Cipralex, after a rough early ride, ( agitation, panic, depersonalization, derealization, hysterical freakouts, for very brief periods,  I had very early response of beautiful mood improvement, with reduced anxiety, Day 3,4,5,  my distrusted GP tells me Placebo, I know it i was improved brain working. FACT. Unfortunately the improved mood quickly disappeared and was replaced with VEGETATIVE NON_MOTIVATIONAL APATHETIC STUPOUR which within the third week was a return to suicidal thoughts on top of the aforementioned crappy non-response. So how common is it for a drug to show its’ true possible beautiful colours and then fade away, leaving one worse off for the cruel false hope? Obviously I don’t mean Poop-out, I mean just getting an early feeling for if it’s a fit, and then it suddenly jilts you.

 
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:27:

My Big Rejection, my Magic Pill that just won’t perform when I need it to, Is one that Jerod’s Medicinally Experienced Ex, did well with, when nothing else would, the works for some refractory and could save my life, but only on Sundays, Tramadol  Please someone tell me why it only works  once in a blue moon, but when it does it fixes my brain in the exact EXACT way I want and need it to be fixed.  Absolute calmness, all sensory overload is gone, positive instead of negative, mental energy to deal with important things long put off, all critical repetitive voice stop instantly to be replaced with constructive self-coaching, harm reduction oriented,  aware of other’s needs, more able to be supportive, less self-centered. My real self that I want to be. Glass half-full.  I realize this is not a long term solution, though for some, it has lasted years, I just want to understand the clues this positive response could be indicating in terms of what I need to fix my brain and even my personality so brilliantly. Like in the old classic “Listening to Prozac” where whole personalities were improved to alarming degrees, supposedly, to the old way of thinking.

 
 
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:27:

But Tramadol, while it has known anti-depressant weak re-uptake (SE & NE ) factors, works the first time. So how is the AD effect relevant. ( The synthetuic opiod effect is not all that is making this one pill so brain-changing for me )  To confuse me further, as I tried to research my lost love, I found a paper on how Reboxetine (NE) given to normals, first time one time, caused “Positive Emotional Bias”.  So I  did not unnderstand how an anti depressant could cause immediate improvement in happy thoughts in undepressed normals. But so th successful experiment said.    Does anyone know what I mean about a magic pill not working when it did work and the curiosity that burns in the brain to find a similar fix/fit. Is that not logical to question why, that lost happiness, that lost potential.   All at the drop of a hat, it could allow me to live.  Or not.
mania answered 3 years ago

Re: No Hope Left: Tramadol fails
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:53:

Maybe only Mouse can advise on this. Is she the only one Tramadol helped in an  anti-depressant mood-stabilizing almost better than well pill fashion?  I feel not so very unique that this could be true.  

 
Mouse really doesn’t respond on the boards.  
 
But the reason some people get a positive response to Tramadol is because it “inhibits the re-uptake of serotonin and noradrenaline which probably accounts for some of its analgesic properties” source.
 
Think about it: Anti-depressants hit one or more of these three: seratonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine.  All ADs have their own special “combo” and mechanism for aiming at your neurotransmitters.  If you’re lucky, one of the ADs will hit your particular problem.  If you’re not, you’re sucking.  
 
Tramadol happens to work by a similar action to an AD.  Perhaps whatever is going on in your noggin isn’t sensitive to the recipe in the current ADs, but IS to the recipe used in making Tramadol.
 
Count yourself lucky that there is ANY drug formulation out there that your brain responds to, and run with it.  There IS medical research backing Tramadol use for major depression, though I can’t access the readable copy on Treatment of refractory major depression with tramadol monotherapy.
 
Then again, the shit is considered addictive, so maybe THAT’s why they don’t want to give it to you.  
 
I wish I had a billion dollars and access to all of these journals….
 
 
mania
 
ps: the reason your post is split up, but with no answers is because I don’t have all the answers, but now it’s easier to read.

dcentity2000 answered 3 years ago

Re: No Hope Left: Tramadol fails
Might I recommend some options?
 
•  Try combining MAOI medications with TriCyclics (under supervision, of course).
 
•  You could go further by adding Lithium which often exhibits a positive effect, especially when combined with the above.
 
•  Clozapine, an atypical antipsychotic, was originally developed as a powerful antidepressant. Be warned – you will need weekly blood tests on this drug and will probably become very sedated, put on weight and drool all the time.
 
•  Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS or rTMS) is touted as the replacement for ECT, featuring far less side effects. Patients describe a feeling of bliss and euphoria, especially strong just after a session. This treatment is especially effective against mental trauma.
 
•  Electro-Convulsive Therapy (ECT) is very effective over the short term. It is primarily used for patients who need immediate relief from depressive illnesses. It is a tried and tested method and treatment has evolved. These days you are knocked out with a short acting but powerful barbiturate and paralysed with muscle relaxants. Common side effects include short term memory loss (primarily just before and after a session), long term memory loss (usually temporary, although it will take a long time to restore), disorientation and confusion. What they don’t tell you, however, is that ECT has a flattening effect. You may be less depressed but you’ll more than likely become unable to experience heightened pleasure. Also take note that this treatment is not suitable for long term treatment.
 
•  Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS) is an extremely rare therapy for psychiatric conditions. It is mainly used to manage Epilepsy, but has been shown to have a strong long term antidepressive effect. Effectively, a small device is implanted in you that delivers small, regular electric shocks. The strength can be easily adjusted without invasive therapy and can even be disabled. As I said, though, this treatment is anything but a first line treatment and is in no way commonplace.
 
•  Shock Therapy is as far as I will describe. Legality of these treatments depends on the country in question. These really are nasty. Atropinic Shock Therapy is still widely available with written consent. It’s virtually the last ditch attempt for horrifically ill people; the treatment smashes you into a shallow coma for several hours. Insulin Shock Therapy is still practised in the world but is largely illegal. You are injected with a tonne of Insulin, resulting in convulsions and a coma. Don’t do this.
 
 
 
Rich::

Glen answered 3 years ago

Re: No Hope Left: Tramadol fails
Quote from Brain No Work on 24. May 2006 at 03:27:

…………… But having failed at a SSRI, Cipralex, after a rough early ride, ( agitation, panic, depersonalization, derealization, hysterical freakouts, for very brief periods,  I had very early response of beautiful mood improvement, with reduced anxiety, Day 3,4,5,  my distrusted GP tells me Placebo, I know it i was improved brain working……….

 
 
That sounds like psychosis. To me it sounds like you may have the even crappier form of bipolar disorder. All the lows and none of the highs. Kind of like getting diet food except instead of all the taste and half the calories you get half the taste and twice the calories. Anyway get a second or third opinion and maybe give an MS or AC a try.